During GiantX' Twitch live in december with Sheep Esports, we had the privilege of having 2 coaches chat together, Jonas "Hidon" Vraa and Christophe "Kaas" van Oudheusden. Topics ranged from the dynamics and strategy of their new team to the integration of new players, particularly Jackies.
| Ok so welcome guys to my small streaming room.
Kaas: "Thank you for having us."
| I heard this is your coaching room?
Kaas: "This is our coaching room that we got kicked out because you were coming. But that’s ok, we respect the order." (laugh)
| So I heard things are going well so far in practice. Are you happy with this new roster?
Kaas: "No, we're not happy." (laugh)
Hidon: "I will start. I mean, Yeah. I'm much happier with this roster than last summer. No, I mean, we have five players that are willing to click forward, and once you have that, you can play the same game. During the last split and spring split, I was not a part of building the team and had no routine. So, we kind of just had to do everything we could to make it work. Whereas in this situation, we have some tools. We basically had some chances to make the roster we wanted within certain limitations, but we are happy."
| Okay, really interesting. For me the main surprise in the roster when I first heard it, I had a hard time believing it... (laugh)
... Hidon: "Yeah..."
... Kaas: "Same, same..." (laugh)
"... I heard few midlaners, one was Jackies. I wouldn't expect him to be the first option, so I mean, was he the first option?"
Kaas: "Who did you think the first option was?"
Hidon: "Yeah, let's go with that."
| I think it was Jackies, but I was not expecting him to be.
Hidon: "What's the top 3 you had ?"
| Sorry? [...]
[...] Hidon: "Who leaked the top 3? No, I'm joking. I'm joking." (laugh)
| Ah, no, no, I don't talk about that.
Hidon: "Yeah, so basically with Jackies, I mean, first of all, I'm someone personally who likes to take risks, if I feel it's a calculated risk. Jackies, obviously, when you go for a player like that, you have to do all your homework. So we did our scouting. We had all the interviews needed to basically be comfortable making this decision. We don't run trials. We don't believe in that kind of style, but we believe in our system without sharing too much. And, yeah, we are very, very happy with him."
| How did you find Jackies?
Kaas: "Okay, so first thing is that basically, when you make this roster, if you look at it, it's all about basically kind of making Worlds, right? Every team wants to make Worlds or like further expectations. So you kind of have to build a roster that will compete with the best three mid laners in the league, right? So you need to kind of look from like, okay, guys, with the options that we have, are they able to beat, Humanoid, Larson, Caps, all these kinds of midlaners? And we felt that the options that existed, like the difference between those veterans and someone like Jackies, were not big enough to actually go for the veteran. So that's also one of the reasons why we looked further in the pool. Obviously, Jackies is not there yet, right. But he's promising, and I think it's up to us to also give him the support to develop."
| Okay, really interesting. One thing you mentioned as well, in the announcement, which surprised me, is you said you didn't use data because I heard those rumors as well, to be honest.
Kaas: "Yeah. Ok ok. So there was basically this podcast going on with Rich, and Gillis was there. And obviously they talked about the simulator that excel only signs players dependent on the simulator, right? No, that's not true. Simulator data is part of our scouting system because, for example, we always try to learn from traditional sports. And if you look at, for example, the NFL, all the players are wearing electric chips in their shoulder pads, and they can measure data such as acceleration or even if someone scores a touchdown, how far was the defender from him, right? So it would be stupid of us to not use data, but it's part right. We also look at personality; we do interviews; we look at mechanics; we listen to the comps… There's so much more going on. But not only that, it's also trying to find the perfect balance between the 8 othersexisting players. Like, what does Odo provide? What does Patrik provide? Okay, we have Peach. What is Peach’sweakness? How do we make it stronger, right? So, I think it's a big puzzle. And there was an option where, for example, I mean Jackies was always part of it, right? But one of the other options is where Peach was not part of the roster right, so it would be a coherent system and the puzzle would stick out."
| So did you choose Peach because you thought he made sense with Jackies? Why would he be a good combination with Jackies?
Hidon: "I mean, obviously, when you come to budget, you have certain limitations. But, just looking at the past pairing we had, which was Abe and Peach, when you take those two into consideration Abe, Peach and Peach, Jackies, the difference really isn't there, right? Like, you can look at mechanical skill, communication… And we felt that regardless of Peach, Abe or Peach and Jackies, we would rather take the latter one, which is Peach and Jackie's right? Because we feel that the strengths that Jackies give are something that is the weakness of Peach right? Whereas with Abe and Peach, they don't really connect. So, we would much rather take this route. And we are again; we're really happy and aligned with the decisions we made. So regardless of how it goes, we can at least look ourselves in the mirror."
| Okay, well, really interesting on my part. I'm also excited about this roster because, again, Jackies is like, for me, it's the first complete rookie in LEC because, as you know, we've seen other rookies every year, but they have played in LFL. They have played in big ERLs...
... Hidon: "Yeah, real rookies..."
"... Yeah, It feels like a big risk to me. You said you like to take risks if you think they're worth it. So I think it makes sense. And I'm really excited to see."
Kaas: "Ask you a question: Who knew whom humanoid was in 2019? Also, no one, right? So I think these players do exist."
| He was playing for Isuba before.
Kaas: "Yeah, I think so. Like Isuba, or maybe some turkish team before?"
| No, he played in Ultra League. But like Ultra League back then, it was a strong ERL.
Kaas: "Yeah, I mean, obviously, right? He's coming from a weaker national league, right? But he also scrimmed against already LEC teams, and that's like a point of views that we looked at and saw the potential, right? We saw that he was actively solo killing them and not clicking backwards just because he's an LEC player."
Hidon: "Just to add to it quickly, the confidence he already shows from day one of scrims to day two, it's a completely different player. So, as you could see on the stage right, he shows great confidence already. So, we're just very excited about him, and we feel that we can develop him really well."
| Okay, interesting. For the rest of the roster, Odoamne, Patrick, did you always know that they would stay on the roster? Are you happy to keep them? (laugh) I guess you are.
Kaas: "So, Odo was signed for one more year. It was impossible to get rid of him (laugh). We tried our absolute best to get rid of Odo, but it was impossible (laught). No, I mean, he's a rock, right? He's 28 years old, but he doesn't play like someone who's 28. Usually, their interest shifts towards more life, et cetera, or family. But Odo is the opposite; he grinds, and he grinds. He also went to Korea, played when Worlds was in Korea right? So he also played solo.Q there. Patrik, was he always part of the roster? Definitely not. I can tell you that Patrik did have a few options, right? He expired, and he's considered as a good AD carry, right? Before, Excel was always named Patrick and friends (laugh). So obviously there was some contest, but I think the moment that MAD Lions erupted, we had an offer for Patrik, and he took it very quickly, obviously. I mean, there's no shame in it, right? And that's just how the world turns, right?"
| Okay, interesting. And so, the last piece who joined the roster was Ignar. There were a lot of supports available on the market. Is it because of Peach, because you want two Koreans, or do you think it makes sense with Patrik?
Hidon: "I mean no shame in it, like, we were incredibly lucky that Ignar became available because we felt that the current support pool was not what we were looking for at all. You know, there was a lot, but not what we wanted. So, we were extremely lucky that he fell into our lap, basically. So, yeah, I mean, we didn't hesitate. We obviously looked at other options. You probably know about that, right? But the moment he became available, and we had an interview with him, it snapped him up immediately."
Kaas: "I can add on to that. Obviously, we also had the option to go for Trymbi, but we thought Ignar would match better with peach. For example, Trymbi would be with a different jungler, Lyncas. So that would be one of the options. Now, the thing is that CLG, I mean, NRG right now, actually made a horrible mistake by firing Kami, who is the general manager, right? He was basically the architect of NRG’s roster, which went to worlds, won LCS and beat G2. And he was a big fan of Ignar, so my mind was, okay, he's going to keep Ignar for sure, but he got fired. And then Ignar actually got so pissed off that he got fired. So then Ignar was like, "Ohh..."", you know, it was a chain reaction."
| Really interesting. Okay, well, thank you so much for this insight on the roster. And despite tier lists (laugh), I hope that you do well in LEC, especially with the risk you took. So, I think that's a really smart decision. And if Jackies and the roster around such a young player works out, I think it will be really exciting for everyone. When Humanoid came in, I think it was really hype. Best of luck, guys. Thank you so much for coming.
Kass and Hidon: "Thank you for having us."
