VIT Neo about ZywOo and apEX: "I consider them as my brothers. We grew up together"

Team Vitality is today one of the biggest esports organizations in the world. Home to the greatest Counter-Strike team of all time, a two-time Rocket League world champion, and a more modest yet equally important presence in League of Legends and VALORANT, Vitality has become a major force in both French and international esports.

During the Esports World Cup, we interviewed Vitality president and co-founder Fabien “Neo” Devide, with whom we discussed several topics, including the contract extensions through 2028 of Mathieu “ZywOo” Herbaut and Dan “apEX” Madesclaire, the arrival of An “FIESTA” Hyeon-seo, the upcoming offseason surrounding Kaan “Naak Nako” Okan, and the new VALORANT circuit.

Fabien “Neo” Devide: “No. It's obvious for everyone. ZywOo is a child of the club. apEX has become one, if not the biggest legend of the organization. You have the feeling that Vitality is a part from them, so it was rather obvious for them. Negotiation and renewal have been in the air for months. Today, we have a relationship that is beyond the professional one. I consider them as my brothers. We grew up together. I also grew up as a leader thanks to them.

On a global level, Vitality has become an important team. They have given me credibility and global exposure. Our relationship has been to grow mutually and reciprocally. I have always been there for them, to offer them the best on the teams, to bring them the belief that we could and would be the best team in the world. They have always given it to me through their investment, their work and their talent. Overall, it was easy, logical, obvious and recognisable.

Neo: There is always interest in the best players in the world. They have had offers, they have been contacted. But they never used it to threaten the club. They never used it to look for something better. Of course, they have very good conditions. Of course, we respect them and treat them according to what they have brought to the institution, to Vitality and to our supporters as a whole.

But we have never been in something unhealthy, despite the approaches. There have been many over the years. But once again, that's what's incredible with these two. We feel that Vitality matters. And it's not just media training or easy demagogy to please the fans. It's certainly the club of their lives and it will remain so.

Neo: There was no need to do it. We have always had a tacit agreement between Dan (apEX) and me. I would give him the choice to stop. I think Dan is pretty critical and lucid to see the day he won't have it anymore. Today, Dan still has it, and I trust him completely and fully to be lucid and consistent with that. The discussion took place for ten minutes. Once we had said that, we projected ourselves. That's what's incredible with Dan. 33 years ago, he still has it. Even if it's the biggest record in the history of the game, he still wants to prove it. Even with a baby coming, it can be seen by many as a distraction, risks on the Vitality side, on age, on the priorities that change.

But once again, I have absolute confidence in my captain and the man. I know very well that he will be the first to come and see me to say that it will stop, and I will be the first to support him, no matter the decision. Today, we offered ourselves a two-year cycle. We are consistent with it. And in two years, we will make an assessment. But I know him, he is passionate, he is passionate, he still has it. And everything is fine.

Neo: We encourage them, we congratulate them. Some things are beyond the game. The birth of a child is stronger than lifting a trophy. I am a father myself. I had the chance to win the trophies I dreamed of in my life, and I don't put that feeling above the birth of my son. I think that today we must be an industry that must also win in maturity, and that must be human above all. A few years ago, it was impossible for a player to consider having a child or building a family while they were under contract. I think that means that we did a good job. The way is there and it must participate.

For me today, the discussion and the criticisms about that, I make fun of it. And even if we get attacked about that in our second part of the season, I would never have any regrets about the way we treated it. Once again, there are things in life that are much more important than the game or the work. And welcoming a birth, when it's a life project, it goes above. So no, on the contrary, happy and delighted. I wish them to live all of this fully.

Neo: No. But I was still consulted, because it was a decision today, rather from my management and from Pad (Patrick Suckow-Breum), which was ultimately torn between the internal problems and the potential recruitment paths, which were not necessarily... We are in the middle of the season, so there is a part of the unknown, especially when we talk about an import. I was just pretty honest with Pad, and I told him some pretty direct things, telling him that from the moment we make a change, there is no good or bad decision. You just have to make a decision that you think is the best for the objectives we have set. And I told him, “die for your ideas”. That's what I respect in people.

He had a blank card this year to set up the team that has to fight for this top 4, and potentially the Worlds qualification with the last spot. It's up to him now to go all the way and not have any regrets at the end of his term. I don't want him to make a decision to please me. I want him to make a decision to say to himself, “I played my part and I want to cause problems for Neo at the end of the year on the choices he will have to make”. And that's what I like in life, I like having good problems. So if I have good problems, I will take responsibility and I will make the necessary choices.

Neo: For me, what defines a successful year in lol, has changed in the last couple of years. A successful year for Vitality is a year where I see a team that fights, a team that doesn't give up, a team that progresses. For me, that's all I've been asking for for years now. If that's the case, it's already very positive. I've actually seen progress for a year, an increase in power. People were a bit unfair at the start of FIESTA, because against the top 1 and 2 of the League, an import who had a week of practice in a new system, the consequences and judgments went hard, already treating him as the worst midlaner the LEC has ever had.

But that's the culture of the moment anyway, you always have to ignore it. For me, a successful year is a year where I saw a team that showed combativeness despite adversity, that managed to show progress. Obviously, I'm going to judge on the result, because Vitality, as I've always said, has an anomaly with League of Legends. Vitality is a team that has to be in the top 3 in all games, and League of Legends has been a problem for us for too long. We have to find that balance. That's always the ambition and the credo. So I'm waiting, and I'm not commenting anymore, I'll see at the end. It's the reality of the ranking and the content that will prevail.

Neo: Naak Nako is a Vitality player until 2027, as far as I know. So today, for me, there's no question; he's part of the project. He's a player who was given his chance from the academy project and from the LEC years, even if everyone was already questioning him when he was promoted. Today, that bet is on our side. I reserve all the possibilities. But I've always said, and I'll say it again, that I've always been extremely ambitious. And the day I'm no longer, I'll no longer be Vitality's manager. So I'll see, depending on the context and the opportunities. But I stay open. Everything is open, but for now, as far as I know, Naak Nako is a Vitality player until 2027.

Neo: These are things we discuss. These are things we look at, like most clubs too, who have a hard time addressing League of Legends in Europe. What we see is that there is a trio of heads and a lot of disconnections with KC, Movistar KOI and G2, who, for different reasons, G2 for the legacy and KOI and KC for the fanbase, are the few heads today.

Those who know how to address the asset in terms of performance and commercial and community opportunities, the others have a hard time addressing how to use LoL, because the game is clearly lagging behind and the numbers still prove it year after year on the LEC side. Obviously, we also look at other leagues, because when we see that the LCK is booming, that the LPL is still getting there, we always wonder if the LCK is going to become the equivalent of the NBA of League of Legends.

So yes, we have to stay ambitious, curious and open our ears and our eyes a little bit. Is it a priority of the club? No. But it's part of my job, as it is when I speak to players, and people say that Vitality is interested in a player. No, it's not because we speak to a player that we are interested in a player. It's just that you have to know the market, its strengths and its weaknesses, and it's the same for this player. So yes, as a club that aims to be the best in the world today, we want to consider everything, because it's our job.

Neo: Positive. I think we need to shake things up a bit, we need new models, we need more inclusive formats, which are easier to read. I think the championship model is not suitable today for the speed at which Esport is going. Having six or seven weeks of championships, with one match a week, and even in terms of management, it doesn't meet the demand. People want to understand the issues quickly, to reset and start again on an issue where their club can also win. So I think the format of the VCT is very positive.

The LEC, with the roadshow system, is also going in the right direction. Now it's better late than never. These are initiatives and innovations that are interesting. I'm very hyped for next year's VCT, and I hope it will be a success. It would be good too, we need it. But on that side, I think I'm more of a fan of change. We can't do the same things over and over again and expect different results. At some point, you have to look for fresh blood. This model next year will inspire, I hope, a new kind of curiosity.

Neo: It will depend on if Riot considers Vitality as a French team. It will also depend on the arguments they will take into account. Is financial health one? Is it simply heroic with the sale of Bundle? Is it just pure stats with streams? There are so many things to take into account. You have to be realistic. There's no preference for France. France is a major actor in VALORANT, and not only in VALORANT, but in esports in general.

EWC, which organized this competition here after the events in the Middle East, attests that France is a massive hub. If a two-year cycle were to take place, with three French teams, one more global than the other two, it wouldn't be a bad thing. If it were up to me, it would be my decision. I will respect Riot's decision, but I consider us as an international team with French roots, rather than purely French.

Neo: Like every time, we'll go back to work. We'll take a look at the season's post-mortem to see what we have. Next year, as usual, we'll do another roster to win. It's the life of a club. You can be invincible for a whole season, have a perfect split, and win nothing for three years. It happened in traditional sports. Bayern Munich won the Champions League and didn’t win it again for three years. The main thing is to be in the discussions, to be in the minds of the players who matter, and to always give ourselves a chance to win. There's something we can't take away from Vitality: In 13 years, we've always given ourselves a chance to win.”